GordonUnleashed

GOP “Machine” pre-spinning a possible Ron Paul straw poll victory

July 27th, 2007 by Steve

In South Carolina, it looks like “they” are already making excuses in advance for what looks like may possibly be a Ron Paul victory in today’s straw poll.

A straw poll in Georgetown Saturday likely won’t be an accurate reflection of GOP voters in the Lowcountry county, but it means big bucks for the local Republican Party.

Supporters of U.S. Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, purchased 300 tickets, and supporters of former U.S. Sen. Fred Thompson have purchased 100 tickets, said Tom Swatzel, chairman of the Georgetown GOP. Tickets cost $10 each.

That likely will skew the voting, but Swatzel said the point of Saturday’s event is to raise money for the local GOP while also showing the grassroots strengths of the presidential campaigns. [snip]

There are no rules against ballot stuffing South Carolina straw polls. And while it is not an everyday occurrence, it is not uncommon, said Chip Felkel, a South Carolina-based political consultant.

The benefits for a campaign to send a lot of delegates is it allows them to win a straw poll and later use that as a campaign rallying point, Felkel said. Most people won’t know or care months later if the votes were rigged or not.

“It’s about perception,” Felkel said.

Paul supporters are planning a car caravan from the Greenville-Spartanburg area and a campaign bus/RV that will arrive in Pawleys Island on Friday night before the event at Waccamaw High School, Swatzel said.

In addition, Paul supporters have been posting items on Web sites reminding people they have to be South Carolina residents in order to vote in the poll.

Paul’s campaign has been lifting more and more in the last few weeks as ardent on-line supporters have started to translate into event attendees. Paul drew very large crowds in Greenville and Spartanburg last week.

Swatzel said he had invited the 11 Republican candidates recognized by the state GOP as well as Thompson, who has not officially announced.

No matter how Dr. No fairs in this straw poll, it’s indeed interesting that he’s scared the Republican machine enough that they are pre-spinning his potential win there.

Posted in National Politics, Libertarian Movement

25 Responses to “GOP “Machine” pre-spinning a possible Ron Paul straw poll victory”

Eric Dondero wrote on 07/27/07 at 11:56 am :

The very latest polls just released yesterday show this race to be solidifying. There’s even less and less room for Fred Thompson to jump in.

ABC has Rudy Giuliani way out ahead of the rest of the pack with 37%. Thompson is next with 14%.

It’s looking increasingly like Rudy Giuliani will be the Republican Nominee for President. Everyone else will be an also-ran.

And for the first time since Goldwater, the Republican Party would have nominated a genuine libertarian-leaning Conservative.

We libertarians ought to be proud!
Brian Miller wrote on 07/27/07 at 9:40 pm :

A straw poll in Georgetown Saturday likely won’t be an accurate reflection of GOP voters in the Lowcountry county

Ah, so it’s a bit like the “poll” that you’ve been running.

Seriously, Stephen, if you aren’t going to make the poll a non-self-selecting, statistically and methodologically valid poll, you should stop publishing it. It doesn’t help the Ron Paul campaign (nor libertarianism in general) to rely on data from a survey that would flunk a freshman college probability and statistics course.
Rich Paul wrote on 07/28/07 at 12:06 am :

Dondero:

In what way is Giuliani Libertarian leaning? No interest in cutting spending, no interest in ending the disastrous war, the guy ran New York like a police state (he liked cops that sodomized suspects with billy clubs, ran the adult businesses out of times square, brought in a draconian smoking ban, etc, etc, etc).

Do you think he’s Libertarian because there is a single law he wants to repeal? If so, name it, ’cause he hasn’t mentioned it. Or do you think he’s Libertarian because he’s into torture? If so, you’re thinking of the Marquis de Sade, who was NOT a libertarian … he was a Libertine … that’s different.
Eric Dondero wrote on 07/28/07 at 2:23 pm :

What disastrous War? Oh, you mean the War to Liberate Millions of Iraqis from the reign of the sadistic murderous Saddam Hussein? Oh, I guess you were one of the ones who said back in the 1970s, “Not our problem… Let those Cambodians dies in the Killing Fields. Pol Pot is none of our business.”

And I guess you would be one of those in the 1940s, who said, “a few million Jews dead in Europe, not our problem.”

Quite a “libertarian” view you have there.
Eric Dondero wrote on 07/28/07 at 2:25 pm :

Firstly, the CORRECT LIBERTARIAN POSITION ON IRAQ, it to be in favor of the War, and the liberation of millions of Iraqis from Saddam Hussein’s terror, now turned into the Terror of Al Qaeda. The Incorrect libertarian position is to oppose the War.

You can judge someone’s libertarianism right off the bat by this simple equation:

Pro-War in Iraq = Libertarian

Pro-Surrender to Islamo-Fascism = Authoritarianism (maybe even Naziism)
Eric Dondero wrote on 07/28/07 at 2:29 pm :

How is Giuliani a libertarian outside of foreign policy?

Umm, dunno.

Maybe you shold FUCKING ASK THE WASHINGTON POST WHO JUST HAD A HEADLINE STORY TITLED: “Rudy Giuliani’s Libertarian Health Care Plan.”

Or… Maybe, just Maybe…

YOU SHOULD FUCKING ASK THE WALL STREET JOURNAL THAT JUST HAD A HEADLINE COLUMN WHICH CALLED GIULIANI A “LIBERTARIAN”

Or maybe you should ask the Washington Times, London Times-Herald, Chicago Tribune, LA Times, New Republic, National Review, Human Events and numerous other highly respected periodicals who have also dubbed Giuliani a “libertarian” or “libertarian conservative” in the past few months.

Or, maybe you should ask the NY Times, who called Giuliani a “Privatizing Ayn Randian Free Mareketeer” back in 1999.

Or, better yet, confer with ontheissue.org, a very well-respected non-partisan website that rates Giuliani as a “Moderate Libertarian” at 60/60 closest one out of over 30 to Ron Paul who rates at 70/70 on the test.

Or, maybe you should ask some of Giuliani’s libertarian supporters like Larry Kudlow, Cong. Ed Royce of California, Cong. David Dreier, Steve Forbes, or Bill Simon?

How is Giuliani a libertarian?

Umm dunno. Beats me.
Steve wrote on 07/28/07 at 2:37 pm :

Eric,

Aside from obvious differences about the Iraq War, RG brags on his campaign site about depriving New Yorkers of their right of self-defense. How’s this libertarian?

Cracking down on prostitutes in NYC? How’s that libertarian?

He makes somewhat articulate fiscal conservative noises, but that does not a libertarian make.

Maybe you should take a bit of look at his track record.
Steve wrote on 07/28/07 at 2:39 pm :

From Rudy’s site: “Rudy Giuliani believes marriage is between a man and a woman. He does not - and has never - supported gay marriage.”
Eric Dondero wrote on 07/28/07 at 8:01 pm :

Steve, “he occasionally makes fiscal conservative noises…” What??!!!

The friggin’ NY Times said this of Giuliani in 1999:

He’s privatized so many NYC welfare programs that he’s essentially a “radical privatizing Ayn Randian.”

Giuliani cut taxes 23 times as NYC Mayor!!! That’s not what I would call “occasionally makes fiscal conservative noises.”

On guns, give the guy a break for goodness sakes. This is NEW YORK CITY WE’RE TALKING ABOUT!!! This is not some small town in the Colorado Mountains. My gosh.

On prostitution, yes you are correct. His past views on this issue greatly dissapoint me. But my take on this, is there are not enough hardcore libertarians around him at the moment urging him to retract his past unfortunate position on this issue. My guess is that now he could be persuaded to take a “States Rights” approach to the matter, but ONLY if we libertarians join his campaign en masse.
whatever wrote on 07/28/07 at 8:38 pm :

On guns, give the guy a break for goodness sakes. This is NEW YORK CITY WE’RE TALKING ABOUT!!! This is not some small town in the Colorado Mountains. My gosh.

So the 2nd Amendment has an exception for New Yorkers?

Gee, keep that kind of crap up and even your loyal republican overlords’ll excommunicate your ass.
Eric Dondero wrote on 07/28/07 at 10:44 pm :

Hey, so let me get this straight.

Libertarian, Republican, whatever, if they’re running for Mayor of New York City, the 3rd most Liberal City in America (next to San Francisco and Seattle), they should run on a platform of complete support for the 2nd Amendment, no exceptions, ‘eh?

You know how many votes such a candidate would get? Maybe 20% if they’re lucky.

Typical nutty extremist, hoplessly un-political thinking by a Libertarian Party partisan: Better to lose on principle, than to bend a little and actually win.

Stay in the LP. You’ll never make it in the real world of American politics.
GordonUnleashed » Blog Archive » Ron Paul comes in second in SC GOP straw poll wrote on 07/29/07 at 8:59 pm :

[…] a good thing the media made the pre-spin in […]
Don Wills wrote on 07/29/07 at 11:44 pm :

The American Heritage Dictionary defines a libertarian thusly: “One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state.”

For Eric D. to call Rudy a libertarian is the height of spin. Rudy is a Rockefeller Republican - an east coast liberal urban elitist who thinks he knows what’s best for the common man, and who won’t let the Constitution get in the way of any of his plans. He’s the antithesis of a Goldwater Republican. And Eric’s spin that support for the Iraq war is the true libertarian position is so off base it’s laughable. Trying to sell the Rudy-is-a-libertarian story is simply dishonest.
Dan wrote on 07/30/07 at 12:20 am :

Leaving a bunch of expletive laced tirades on the web is really going to help you with that campaign you have coming up, Eric. Then again, since you haven’t registered your campaign yet, I’m betting you puss out on your anti-Paul run.
somebody wrote on 07/30/07 at 12:55 am :

Man, oh man. Dondero, you need to be more articulate and less emotional. Besides, Giuliani is a freaking authoritarian. How can you call yourself a libertarian considering how massive government gets whenever it wages war or how our civil liberties have been curtailed?
A wrote on 07/30/07 at 3:29 am :

Giuliani: libertarian-leaning? What’s next? Are people going to claim Hillary Clinton is also libertarian-leaning? Give me a break.

Those who support the Iraq war clearly support Islamo-Fascism. That’s why they want the al-Qaeda-membership-boosting war to continue. They wants more attacks to be perpetrated against innocent American citizens, and knows that the only way to ensure this happens is to maintain U.S. military presence in other countries.

You can judge someone’s anti-Americanism right off the bat by this simple equation:

Pro-War in Iraq = anti-American

Opposed to the Slaughter of Innocent People = Libertarian

The correct libertarian position on the war in Iraq is:
A) The American troops should never be stationed outside of U.S. for any reason other than defence.
B) The only just wars the U.S. military has ever been involved in are the Revolutionary War, World War II, and the war against al-Qaeda–therefore the U.S. military should not have gone to Iraq.
C) Congress should have declared war on al-Qaeda. It’s failure to do so made an otherwise just war technically unconstitutional. Congress should not make this mistake again.
D) If private citizens wish to take down the tyrannical dictator known as Saddam Hussein, Kim Jong-Il, etc., they should be free to go and do so, and should be applauded for their bravery.
Side Note) The U.S. military wouldn’t even have to be in Afghanistan had libertarians been in charge of this country during this past century because nobody would hate us (except for socialists) and therefore there would have BEEN NO 9/11 terrorist attacks against the U.S.

Someone above says, “On guns, give the guy a break for goodness sakes. This is NEW YORK CITY WE’RE TALKING ABOUT!!! This is not some small town in the Colorado Mountains. My gosh.”

All the more reason gun control absolutely must be abolished there. Do you have any idea how many people gun-control kills every year in New York alone? I will never give an anti-libertarian like Giuliani a break for that.

“Typical nutty extremist, hoplessly un-political thinking by a Libertarian Party partisan: Better to lose on principle, than to bend a little and actually win.”

Who won!? All those people who DIED because of gun control, did they win?
Brian wrote on 07/30/07 at 12:34 pm :

I love how Dondero keeps digging himself in deeper with blog postings that are archived forever and that are easily findable by voters and media. It will be interesting to see how voters in his district perceive his online persona in the course of his quixotic Congressional run.
Eric Dondero wrote on 07/31/07 at 12:39 pm :

Check out this Blog today. It’s from a Health Care Finance Director, MBA, analyzing Ron Paul’s and Giuliani’s Health Care Reforms. His conclusion? Giuliani is “more libertarian than Ron Paul.”

http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/200304/r2532_5850.jpg

Oh, and some breaking news…

The Giuliani campaign has just apointed top libertarian Think Tank head Sally Pipes as a Campaign Advisor.

Check it out at:

www.mainstreamlibertarian.com
Eric Dondero wrote on 07/31/07 at 12:45 pm :

Don Willis:

I have a book from 1984 called “Left Right, and the Political Spectrum” by the Cato Institute that defines “libertarian” as essentially:

“Fiscally conservative yet socially liberal.”

It’s by two University of Central Florida Professors Lillie & Maddox. They identify folks like John Anderson, Jack Kemp, and Gary Hart as the best examples of “libertarians.”

There was also a huge Fortune Magazine article from 1985 which identified Kemp, Cong. Ed Zchau and Gary Hart as “top libertarians.”

It depends on your perspective. You come from the extremist wing of the libertarian movement. Of course, from your perspective hardly anyone will be defined as a “libertarian.”

I come from the mainstream wing of the libertarian movement.

To me, it’s exactly opposite. I have a hard time categorizing people like you as “libertarians.” You all are more “anarchists.”

To me Giuliani is more libertarian than Ron Paul, cause he’s more in the middle of the Libertarian Spectrum, than Ron Paul who is off the charts.
Eric Dondero wrote on 07/31/07 at 12:47 pm :

I have a question for people like Don:

Do you acknowledge that there’s such a thing as a “Moderate Libertarian”?

Do all libertarians in your view have to be extremists and radicals?

And if so, how do you explain someone who scores 70/70 on the WSPQ, well within the Libertarian Quadrant, instead of 100/100?

Do they still qualify as a “libertarian” in your view?

The card says they should. There’s no distinction between someone who scores 100/100 or 70/70. According to the WSPQ quiz all are “libertarian.”
Steve wrote on 07/31/07 at 12:47 pm :

Eric,

Libertarians are also anti-authoritarian and opposed to non-defensive wars.

Rudy is an authoritarian who loves killing people for no good reason.
Lex wrote on 08/1/07 at 1:33 am :

“What disastrous War? Oh, you mean the War to Liberate Millions of Iraqis from the reign of the sadistic murderous Saddam Hussein?”

The Iraqis must really be feeling liberated, what without electricity, clean water, and basic services, now that they have martial law under a foreign occupying power who has attracted swarms of terrorists to their country. Life under the Hussein regime must have been so much worse.
Eric Dondero wrote on 08/1/07 at 11:16 am :

Steve, no offense, but you’re a relative Newbie to the libertarian movement. You’ve been a libertarian for what? 5 or 6 years now?

I’ve got 23 years as a Libertarian under my belt, actually 26, if you count having first voted Libertarian in 1982 absentee out to sea in the Persian Gulf on board the USS Luce DDG-38. Became an active LPer immediately after I got out of the Navy in 1985.

When I joined the LP in Jacksonville, FL recruited by Dianne Pilcher and Nick Dunbar, there was nothing said to me about foreign policy/defense issues.
Nick said to me, “hey, you need to be a Libertarian cause we’re the Party that’s Pro-Choice on abortion, and Pro-Free Markets like Milton Friedman, and we hate Jerry Falwell.”

I said, Hot Damn! Sign me up!!

It wasn’t til about a year later that I learned there was such a thing as a “non-interventionist” Libertarian. I asked Nick about it, and he told me they were “just a fringe group, like Pro-Lifer Libertarians, not too worry.”

And they were a fringe group at the time.

Reason Magazine was Pro-Defense back then.

There was a very active Libertarian Defense Caucus headed up by Bob Poole, Jack Wheeler, and Mike Dunn.

Foreign Policy wasn’t really an issue in the Libertarian Party in the middle 1980s. It was all about opposing the Religious Right and protesting Taxes.

You are grossly misrepresenting the meaning of the word “libertarian” by linking it with non-interventionism.

If anything, the complete opposite is true.

Those who are weak on Defense, and wish to surrender to Islamic Radicals are essentially authoritarians themselves.

Those who wish to defend freedom, and stand up to those who would take our freedoms away, most certainly Islamo-Fascists, are true libertarians.

Now, I’m not in favor of purging people like you out of the libertarian movement.

But I would kindly ask you to have some respect for those of us who have given our lives to this libertarian movement, and who have been active for decades now.

Need I remind you that Dr. John Hospers, the LP’s First Presidential Candidate was and is a Pro-Defense Libertarian and a proud member of the Libertarian Defense Caucus?

Should I also remind you that Dana Rohrabacher, long credited with having founded the Modern Libertarian Movement was and is Pro-Defense.

Advice for Libertarian Newbies: Shut up and get to the back of the bus. Those of us who have been Libertarians for almost ever, are pulling rank.
Eric Dondero wrote on 08/1/07 at 11:19 am :

Lex, I guess you missed that NY Times piece a couple days ago, ‘eh?

Two longtime Bush skeptics, ultra-Liberal penned an article, “This is a War We’re Winning.”

They even mentioned how local services to Iraqis have greatly improved.

You can see some excerpts from the article over at my Blog (not a shameless plug) at www.libertarianrepublican.blogspot.com
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GOP “Machine” pre-spinning a possible Ron Paul straw poll victory

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