GordonUnleashed

Government Monopoly Imposed at Gunpoint: Liberty Dollar Raided by the Feds

November 15th, 2007 by Steve

_{UPDATE: While there is some speculation that the e-mail in question may have been bogus, I’ve tried to call the company and received no response from a live person. Additionally, the local media has published an article about the raid, which includes the following confirmation:}

FBI Agent Wendy Osborne, a spokeswoman for the FBI’s Indianapolis office, directed all questions on the raid to the Western District of North Carolina U.S. Attorney’s Office. A spokeswoman there said she had no information on the investigation.

_{UPDATE II: Brian Doherty has confirmed a bit more over at Hit and Run:}

Thanks to reasoner Jeff Taylor, I’ve seen a copy of a Nov. 9 seizure warrant on an Asheville, NC, address, not available online, claiming that Liberty Dollars at that address are forefeitable for being connected with money laundering and mail fraud. I have not read the entire 38 page warrant, nor am I 100 percent certain it is connected with the actions in Evansville today, but given that the Indianapolis FBI referred me to the U.S. Attorney in North Carolina, probably so, and that multiple raids were planned or executed re: the liberty dollar.

The warrant explains that the FBI from Aug 2005 to July 2007 were “conducting undercover operations to determine the legality of the American Liberty Dollar currency.” The warrant also notes that von NotHaus sold an undercover agent a Liberty Dollar T-shirt, and that the agent observed von NotHaus driving a 1999 Cadillac Deville. It doesn’t take a trained federal agent to connect the dots here, I suppose. In other words: What-th-what-th-What?

It’s just hitting the blogs that Liberty Dollar was just raided and all of their assets were seized. From the e-mail Bernard von NotHaus distributed this morning:

I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

Mark Nestman wrote:

Liberty Dollars are produced by the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve Act and the Internal Revenue Code (NORFED). Led by economist Bernard Nothaus, NORFED has long been a thorn in the side of the federal government.

And now, the feds are getting their revenge.

There is little question that the production, sale, and possession of Liberty Dollars are legal. Indeed, in 1999, the Treasury Department’s legal team reviewed the Liberty Dollar. Claudia Dickens, spokeswoman for the U.S. Treasury Department’s Bureau of Engraving and Printing, said:

“There’s nothing illegal about this. As long as it doesn’t say legal tender there’s nothing wrong with it.”

That, apparently, is the rub. “Legal tender,” in essence, means that a particular form of money must be accepted for all debts.

NORFED has never claimed that Liberty Dollars are legal tender. However, in recent years, the company built up a network of “Liberty merchants” who accept Liberty Dollars in exchange for goods and services. And since the U.S. Department of Justice says that federal legal tender laws prohibit the use of privately circulated gold or silver coins intended for use as money, that may have been what led to today’s raid on NORFED.

Since the dollar can’t compete with other currencies and commodities, the government is apparently shutting down it’s competition. Will the government next go after UPS for competing with the Postal Service? One wonders if this action was aimed at the Ron Paul campaign, too.

Over at Ron Paul HQ, I’m sure communication director Jesse Benton’s phone is ringing off the hook. It will truly prove interesting to see what Dr. Paul has to say about the issue.

Posted in Fiscal Responsibility, Civil Liberties, Bad Republicans, Ron Paul, Libertarian Movement

49 Responses to “Government Monopoly Imposed at Gunpoint: Liberty Dollar Raided by the Feds”

David Taylor wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:16 pm :

I can only say that this is evidence that we have made an impact and that the fight is on. Lets us remain peaceful and ever working toward the freedom of our fellow Americans - even those who wish to do us harm

This is extremely disturbing news and I am very sorry this has happened.

Our prayers are with you.
FZappa wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:22 pm :

They’re going to do a false flag operation and blame it on the Ron Paul “terrorists.”

Obvious.
Robert wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:24 pm :

This is all from a mass email purported to be from someone at Liberty Dollar. A comparison of the email headers of this email and a previous email from Liberty Dollar shows a number of differences. It may well be true, but how about we wait for something more than a mass email before getting too worked up about it.
Steve wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:27 pm :

Robert,

I’m not on their e-mail list. Do you have a copy of the original message (and others from Liberty Dollar) that you can forward to me?

stephen(at)gordonnet(dot)net
Eric Taylor wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:32 pm :

As horrific as this is, I am at least thankful that they didn’t also come in with guns blazing. Even if you do eventually get justice, I’m sure that this will have an enormously bad impact on your business.

This is quite a shock, but considering who is running our Federal Government today, I am sad to say I’m not surprised. Peace be with you.

We need Ron Paul now more than ever.
Robert wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:40 pm :

RonPaulForums.com has a thread running the first post on this page has a copy of the header from a previous email, and one from this current email.

I am not on the mailing list and so did not receive a copy myself either, sorry if my previous post insinuated that. I’m not saying the headers there legit either, I don’t know that person, and even if they are 100% accurate it doesn’t “prove” that the email is fake. The “evidence” of the headers (if true) at the very least indicates the email wasn’t sent with the same process as previous emails.

Primarily I’m pointing out that so far the only “evidence” is an email. I don’t believe those emails that tell me I can take pills to enlarge parts of my anatomy either.
rp4Prez wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:43 pm :

This was clearly a preemptive strike on America’s liberty; we must remain calm and hire a good Libertarian attorney that will no doubt take this case all the way up the steps of the Supreme Court.
Nick wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:46 pm :

Well, this might be a response to a number of things.

This may be the first step back on the well-traveled path of gold confiscation. Start with more well-known companies holding gold and label them as “illegal, subversive, funding terrorists and Ron Paul, hurting the troops, tax evasion, etc.” and let the mass-produced people hear from their mass media of a relationship between “gold” and “bad.” Most people these days don’t hold gold anyway, they invest in “safe” mortgage securities and government bonds earning 2% per year designed to keep pace with inflation. So it will take very little for the message to spread that holding precious metals is suspicious.
http://www.mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=258

It also sends a message to those who are learning to be paid in gold and silver instead of Federal Reserve Notes so that they keep their purchasing power. Don’t get any ideas of taking advantage of the parallel monetary system created by Congress in 1985 after being proposed by Congressman Paul. We can’t have people unplugging from the system that continually steals from them and manipulates their purchasing power at the whims of the upper class.
http://www.wethepeoplefoundation.org/UPDATE/Update2007-09-30.htm

They also need more gold to sell to suppress the price of gold and keep intact the illusion that paper money is worth holding. No better way to get more precious metals than by confiscating it for the “protection of Americans.”
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_02/murphy013002.html
(cutaia) wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:49 pm :

I don’t know much about e-mail, but wouldn’t the different headers actually be consistent with using a different computer? After all, the e-mail claimed that the original computers were taken. Of course, if all the computers with customer information were seized as they say, then how did they get the e-mail list back in the first place? Interesting things to ponder I suppose.

I do agree with waiting until we hear something more substantial, though…not everything in e-mail form is always true…
Chad Rushing wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:49 pm :

This local news article seems to confirm the story:

Liberty Dollar office raided

Liberty Dollar employees were at the office this morning cleaning up after the raid. They referred all questions to von NotHaus.
Politeia wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:51 pm :

“We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed.”

No off-site, encrypted backup??!!! This does not inspire confidence in whoever was running this show. Having your heart in the right place is no substitute for basic good business practices.
John Campbell wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:51 pm :

Looking for the silver lining…

If true, this could create a lot of publicity for the dollar crises, the need for sound money, and Ron Paul.
Robert wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:52 pm :

Courier Press (a local paper there) has this story which may be confirmation that something occurred after all.

Liberty Dollar employees were at the office this morning cleaning up after the raid. They referred all questions to von NotHaus.

Which appears to indicate they went to the office and something had happened. Although it is very vague and doesn’t offer much more beyond quotes from the email.
Steve wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:52 pm :

Robert,

Thanks. I’m trying to call LD but not getting through to a live person.

The header is a bit different, but not out of the realm of being legit. No answer from live people in the middle of a business day. No one complaining that they were spammed by the e-mail indicates that that the proper listserver was used.

I’m guessing it did happen as generally outlined in the e-mail.
Anonymous wrote on 11/15/07 at 3:56 pm :

I agree with Robert 100%. The alarms went off in my head as soon as I was forwarded this email around 11 am today.

I like the concept, but have never understood how this fellow could get people to buy coins at prices so much higher than spot.

Why not just trade gold and silver eagles with our local merchants? Is a 1 oz. Eagle somehow different than a 1 oz. “Liberty Dollar”?

Perhaps somebody can help me understand…
Chad Rushing wrote on 11/15/07 at 4:05 pm :

Regarding comment #15, I was always thought it was a bit pointless for Liberty Dollar to put a dollar figure on their coins that was supposed to imply that they were directly exchangeable for or directly representative of Federal Reserve Note values. That is probably what got them in trouble with the federal government who did not care about the nuances of what “legal tender” means.

Whenever the market price of silver would go up or down against the USD, the dollar figure on the coins became pretty meaningless; I think they even offered to melt down your coins and recast them with a new dollar figure imprinted on them. It would have been better for them to sick to ounces of metal content like silver rounds do and stay away from FRN denominations altogether.

I will give them points for trying to introduce an alternative currency, but I always thought was a flaw in their business model which was sure to bring heat from the government.
(cutaia) wrote on 11/15/07 at 4:09 pm :

To anonymous:

It’s my understanding (from someone I know who bought some of these coins), that while they each have a listed “face value” on them, they still sell for the current price of gold/silver/copper. In other words, he bought one of the “$20″ silver coins…but only actually paid around $14 for it.
Chad Rushing wrote on 11/15/07 at 4:10 pm :

It would have been better for them to sick to ounces of metal content like silver rounds do and stay away from FRN denominations altogether.

I meant to say, “STICK to ounces of metal content” above.
Steve wrote on 11/15/07 at 4:11 pm :

Anon,

I’ve never liked Liberty Dollars myself and I certainly don’t understand why people would pay the inflated price. They’ve certainly been a pain to deal with when provided as political donations when I worked at the Libertarian Party and for the Badnarik campaign. FEC issues with something which “isn’t currency” and having a bit of a profit margin doesn’t justify a federal raid, though.
Holly wrote on 11/15/07 at 4:11 pm :

Here’s the email.

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.

The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people’s hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.

I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled… if ever… it now all depends on our actions.

Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don’t let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.

Please forward this important Alert… so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.

Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!

If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.

Bernard von NotHaus

Monetary Architect
E-mail Headers wrote on 11/15/07 at 4:13 pm :

Uh, yeah, the headers are different. They had their computers seized. Obviously they would have to be sending the e-mail from somewhere else.
Anonymous wrote on 11/15/07 at 4:19 pm :

So they had their email list on some remote server but not their client records?
Tucson wrote on 11/15/07 at 4:19 pm :

I just spoke with Alan Julian of the Evansville Courier Press (812-464-7458). He was very evasive when questioned about this story, did not answer any of my questions in trying to vet this story and just kept referring to their published story as all the info they had. This is very wierd in the news business.
Robert wrote on 11/15/07 at 4:23 pm :

Yeah, I would expect the headers to be different, especially with computers having been seized. But it was more than just that they were different, I wouldn’t expect them to be coming from a PHP mailer when others didn’t. I’m not claiming it’s a fake, just that it came through an entirely different method, and one which could easily have been compromised.

This absolutely might be 100% accurate, I’m not saying it didn’t happen. But I’m saying that for a while all of this was based upon an email, that may or may not have been legitimate. I want a little more information and evidence than that before I start to get worked up.
Marcus wrote on 11/15/07 at 4:31 pm :

Why is it the government’s business which currencies people accept or don’t accept in the exchange of goods and services?

I recently heard of an NBA player that has requested to be paid in Euros. The dollar is weak and people are opting for something more valuable. If the government wants people to use dollars, then they should stop the Fed creating so much inflation.
Chad Rushing wrote on 11/15/07 at 4:51 pm :

Marcus, I think it all comes down to the federal government wanting to have the absolute power of taxation over any and every commercial transaction by the citizens. If people start conducting commerce in private currencies voluntarily, then the federal government is left out of the loop and will likely miss getting its “cut.” Obviously, they will not stand for that.

Regarding that NBA player, I read that a very highly paid supermodel in Brazil has requested that her contracts be paid in euros only. There was also a famous American rap singer who was seen waving a stack of euros in his recent music video rather than the standard stack of dollars.

It would be tragically comical if the euro somehow became the currency of choice here in America because of the decline of the dollar.
Ron Paul Radio wrote on 11/15/07 at 5:12 pm :

Exclusive interview with Bernard Von NotHaus on Ron Paul Radio concerning the FBI & Secret Service raid of NORFED (producers of Liberty dollar and Ron Paul Coin).

http://www.ebacherville.com/cgi-bin/uploaded/FINAL-LibertyDollarNotHaus11152007.mp3
Robert wrote on 11/15/07 at 5:35 pm :

Thanks RonPaulRadio, I’d say that qualifies as some confirmation there.
Smoke Jensen wrote on 11/15/07 at 5:51 pm :

I have contacted the Regional Currency Office in Austin Texas. The owner of the RCO spoke directly to Bernard at Liberty Dollar and he confirmed that the raid did occur.
The spirit of FDR is alive and well.
Scott Frost wrote on 11/15/07 at 5:59 pm :

So, this is what we fought all of those wars against tyranny for? How utterly depressing. Authoritarianism is killing America. Think how much worse it would be if Rudy Giuliani were to be elected president. We have to redouble our efforts to elect Ron Paul. I thought it was hyperbole when people would say “Ron Paul is our last chance.” Maybe it isn’t hyperbole…
Steve wrote on 11/15/07 at 6:12 pm :

RPR,

I can’t get the link to work, but will check when I get back home this evening. Off to a state Ron Paul meeting for now.
Win wrote on 11/15/07 at 6:17 pm :

One more sign that the FED’s are deliberately destroying the US currency to bring America to it’s knees so that we all welcome the North American Union and the Amero. The Fed is a private bank that is following the orders of the CFR to destroy the dollar and allow no alternative.

Who is this Ron Paul guy anyway?
Paul Weber wrote on 11/15/07 at 6:36 pm :

this is a good thing in that they (tyrants)are forced to play their hand sooner than they would like.

They thought they could safely incrementally destroy America.

I am proud there are patriots like Liberty dollar and Ron Paul pushing the envelope.. I hope Liberty Dollar is vindicated soon.
Rick Fisk wrote on 11/15/07 at 7:32 pm :

I just got off the phone with Gary Kimble who runs the Liberty Dollar RCO here in Austin. He hasn’t been able to talk with Bernard directly but he got the email as he’s on the email-list and considers it legit unless proved otherwise. He’s also shutting down operations until the legal ramifications can be sorted out.

It would be nice if this was just a lame attempt to incite bad behavior but I don’t get the feeling this is the case.

See here: http://www.austinsilverliberty.com/

Rick
Rick Fisk wrote on 11/15/07 at 7:33 pm :

Smoke, who did you talk to? Gary said he hadn’t talked to Bernard today.
Doug wrote on 11/15/07 at 8:46 pm :

What people fail to understand is:

If we had stuck with gold and silver coins and never had a Federal Reserve that $20 ALD piece would only be a one dollar coin today. It’s the fact that you have to shell out 14-15 dollars just to buy what would have cost you just one dollar 40 years ago that should raise your ire.

As far as paying $20 for something worth $14-$15 The U.S. Mint charges $21.95 for their one ounce silver coin and puts a face value of a dollar on it.

You also have to understand that spot price is based on a minimum 500oz bar. Add minting, storage, transportation and overhead and see what that adds up to.

I’m sure you’d happily swap one of your paper dollars for one of those new presidential dollar coins..even though those coins only have a nickel’s worth of metal in them. Logical? Not from my viewpoint.
Ray Ubinger wrote on 11/15/07 at 8:53 pm :

The contractual terms on the back of my Liberty Dollar warehouse receitps (silver certificates) explicitly state that my silver is insured against theft. So Liberty Services (formerly NORFED) owe us a statement of when they are going to file a theft claim with the insurance company. If the insurance company denies the claim, THEN let’s file class-action, AGAINST THE INSURANCE COMPANY. Or are the warehouse receipts lying? Was the silver NOT REALLY insured against theft??

Ray Ubinger
Durham NC
Liberty Associate since 2006
rhys wrote on 11/15/07 at 9:07 pm :

Next thing you know, they’ll be raiding the Chucky Cheeses for those tokens that are accepted at their restaurants. And what about those laundrymats and copy centers that take electronic currencies.

Our government is filled with theives. When they lose the case and have to give the gold, silver, and federal reserve notes back to their rightful owners, they will not pay a fine or interest.

Interesting how they can confiscate your money, and then require you to defend yourself. If you are innocent until proven guilty, shouldn’t this be the other way around?

Maybe the next step is to seize the bank accounts and assets of those of us with monopoly money.
Chad Rushing wrote on 11/15/07 at 10:01 pm :

Was the silver NOT REALLY insured against theft??

Ray, if I understand correctly, the gold and silver certificates were backed by gold and silver held at the Sunshine Mint. From the Liberty Dollar e-mail:

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

I wonder if the insurance mentioned on the Liberty Dollar certificates is the insurance that Sunshine Mint has on the contents of their vaults:

http://www.sunshinemint.com/Safekeeping.htm

Does anyone want to speculate on whether or not a federal seizure of customer assets stored in the Sunshine Mint vaults would be covered under Sunshine’s insurance policy as “theft” per se? If not, the holders of Liberty Dollar certificates might be out of luck.

Of course, I hope that is not the case for their sake.
Stan Bernard wrote on 11/16/07 at 6:21 am :

I Live in Canada and I KNOW the US is Bankrupt..the minute the M3 money supply figures were not published I KNEW..the end was near..I bought gold and silver..and am reaping the profits
Whats next? A new dollar for inside the US Only
and a dollar for outside of the country.
China has been PRINTING 100 dollar bills nonstop as well as North Korea..Buy SILVER its not too late yet
aeronathan wrote on 11/16/07 at 11:09 am :

There’s got to be a due process violation in there since they Feds siezed everything and that gold/silver/platinum/copper that had been purchased technically belonged to the purchaser and not NORFED. I know I had some copper Ron Pauls (paid for months ago) there and I never saw a warrant for siezure.
Unbelievable wrote on 11/16/07 at 2:57 pm :

I am momentarily distraught at what has happened. I had some $500 of eLDs on file with Liberty.
I wish I would have gotten it all denominated to me in my hand as gold or silver medallions.
But you never really believe this is going to happen again in the U.S. even though it happened in the 1930s when the government confiscated all gold and silver.
The sheeple don’t realize it, but we really are living in the imminent days of a coming revolution — either the rise of the North American Union or someone strong enough and electable enough to take back the reigns of the U.S. government.
I hope U.S. citizens win because the sun is setting on this great nation. What is happening right now in the U.S. is so similar to the fall of the Roman Empire, it is scary.
The only difference is that the fall of the U.S. will allow an even larger empire — the World Government headquarted in Brussels.
Liberty Dollar Offices Robbed Blind by Thieves | New Liberty Creation wrote on 11/16/07 at 4:39 pm :

[…] learned early yesterday from www.gordonunleashed.com that the Liberty Dollar offices were raided by the feds. They took everything, including 2 tons of […]
GordonUnleashed » Blog Archive » Liberty Dollar Raid Update wrote on 11/16/07 at 9:42 pm :

[…] when I reported that the feds had raided Liberty Dollar/NORFED, both LewRockwell.com and Reason’s Hit&Run […]
Anonymous wrote on 11/17/07 at 1:16 am :

#

This is all from a mass email purported to be from someone at Liberty Dollar. A comparison of the email headers of this email and a previous email from Liberty Dollar shows a number of differences.

That makes complete sense. If their computers were all seized as the message states, he would obviously have to resort to other machines to send email, resulting in different email headers.
Buckler wrote on 11/17/07 at 1:17 am :

#

This is all from a mass email purported to be from someone at Liberty Dollar. A comparison of the email headers of this email and a previous email from Liberty Dollar shows a number of differences.

That makes complete sense. If their computers were all seized as the message states, he would obviously have to resort to other machines in other locations to send email, resulting in different email headers.
Buckler wrote on 11/17/07 at 1:17 am :

Sorry for the double post.
Superman wrote on 11/17/07 at 7:27 pm :

The Chucky Cheese thing…

I am in Canada, and, silly as we are (our dollar is always referred to as a “loonie”), we also have a nationwide hardware store called Canadian Tire. Yes, as I type this, it seems like a tire store, but it has almost everything Wal-Mart has, except groceries.

Anyway…they issue their own bonus coupons when paying with cash which we refer to as Canadian Tire money, as they bear denominations from 10¢ to $1, which are redeemable in merchandise at the store. My local comic book shop would accept them at par, and I would not refuse them, myself. They are very popular here, but still, they don’t get much action away from their own store. Still, if we want to use them, nobody has taken them away from us.

I am almost 40, and for the first time, our dollar is worth more than yours. It’s a nice landmark, but I actually feel sorry for you guys as our dollar goes higher than yours. It feels kinda creepy, y’know? Like it shouldn’t be happening :(
Dan wrote on 03/6/08 at 7:59 am :

When do you think the Feds will implement the Amero currency?
Do you think the Amero will be just as worthless as the current dollar? Do you think things will be far worse if they do bring in the Amero?

What things can we expect to see (economy, society, housing, food, energy, foreign relations ect..) when they do bring in the Amero?

If I were you I would start buying gold and silver coins which I am.
Because those coins will be worth more than the dollar and the Amero.

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Government Monopoly Imposed at Gunpoint: Liberty Dollar Raided by the Feds

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