Liberty Dollar Raid Update
November 16th, 2007 by Steve
To begin, feds have also raided facilities in Idaho. Details here.
Yesterday, when I reported that the feds had raided Liberty Dollar/NORFED, both LewRockwell.com and Reason’s Hit&Run linked over here. Now they’ve both got updates on the situation, so its time to reciprocate. From LRC:
“My name is Phil Schmitt and I am the organizer of the Ron Paul Meetup in Evansville, IN; home of the Liberty Dollar. A dedicated fellow member of the group, Brad Linzy, posted these two local newscast covering the Liberty Dollar Raid. He is also the man on the scene that they interviewed…The Fox affiliate actually did a pretty good job and are to be commended.”
Update:
Writes Mark Bednarczyk: “You may want to state in your post that there is some big misinformation in the Fox coverage piece. The class action lawsuit is WITH Liberty Dollar, not against it, and is actually against the government for seizing the assets. That is a great distortion of reality.”
According to an affidavit (PDF) filed by FBI agent Andrew Romagnuolo in support of a federal seizure warrant obtained from a U.S. Magistrate last week, the feds have been investigating Liberty Dollar not just for violating federal bans on circulating alternative currency, but also for mail fraud, wire fraud, and money laundering.
As for the mysterious connection to the Western District of North Carolina, the document names William Innes of Asheville as a Regional Currency Officer for Liberty Dollar and an executive committee member of the company. Undercover government agents made Asheville a focus of their investigation as a result, attending area meetings of Liberty Dollar prospective buyers and sellers.
The affidavit further details Liberty Dollar’s structure and terms it a “multi-level marketing scheme.” The FBI claims the company realizes a profit by selling the Liberty Dollars into circulation. The feds also went back to October 2002 for bank records of Liberty Dollar principals and cite large sums of cash moving between accounts said to be controlled by those individuals.
The document also mentions that the company continued to circulate Liberty Dollars after it had been warned by the US Mint not to do so. Part of the evidence cited for this is an FBI agent purchasing a “The US Mint Can Bite Me” t-shirt at a Liberty Dollar University event in October 2006.
The affidavit concludes that because the Liberty Dollar operation uses Federal Reserve Notes to conduct its business, it is fraudulent. “This reliance upon FRN’s by a group opposed to FRN’s demonstrates that the American Liberty Dollar Monetary system is simply a drain on the United State Government’s monetary system for financial profit via fraudulent means,” the feds claim. The document further claims there is probable cause that violations of federal law took place as a result of these activities.
I’m certainly no fan of Liberty Dollars, Ron Paul Dollars, etc. However, I’ve been around many Liberty Dollar supporters for years and certainly know many Ron Paul supporters enthused about Liberty Dollar, as well. I’ve never even heard one complaint that any Liberty Dollar owner felt like he/she had been swindled, defrauded, or ripped off in any manner. As a matter of fact, in the one negative instance I vaguely recall hearing about the company, the customer said the issue (I think it had to do with a typo in a mailing or shipping address) was resolved quickly and professionally.
To the best of my knowledge, the entire Liberty Dollar operation has been totally voluntary and apparently with no victims. Now there are two classes of victims. Obviously the company and it’s now unemployed workers are victims. When the Feds are seized company assets and records the folks at Liberty Dollar, they created another class of victim, as well: the customers who had redeemable certificates or open orders with the company.
In other words, this federal action has taken a situation with absolutely no victims and created one with two classes of victims. This is simply unjust.
8 Responses to “Liberty Dollar Raid Update”
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Rich Paul wrote on 11/16/07 at 11:15 pm :
I actually own a $20 Liberty Dollar, and have felt no urge to spend it. I didn’t pay $20 for it, of course, I consider it 1oz silver. So long as you value it in that fashion, it’s a great thing.
Besides, it seems to be pretty hard to find Krugerrands here.
Mark Herpel wrote on 11/17/07 at 10:27 am :
I have quite a few silver Libertys and I like them very much. I was an Associate back in 2003 so the silver ounce ’rounds’ I own were purchased when silver was just $6.50 an oz, and now its more than double that.
This raid and seizure was a real injustice and its a sad day in Amerika.
Mark
DigitalMoneyWorld
Rick Fisk wrote on 11/17/07 at 7:24 pm :
Rich, Krugerrands are very easy to obtain. Contact Franklin Sanders. (http://the-moneychanger.com)
This raid was a case of political oppression plain and simple. When you look at the legal cites used to justify the seizure, it becomes completely obvious and especially in light of the fact that Bernard was suing the Secretary of the Treasury for erroneous statements issued by the Mint about the illegality of Liberty Dollars.
Craig wrote on 11/17/07 at 10:55 pm :
So they were actually exchanging their product for money, rather than giving it away? The nerve of them!
It was a multi-level marketing scheme? Kind of like Amway? I’m glad all of those have been shut down.
The founders exchanged large sums of money? You mean the business was profitable?
Where exactly is the crime here? Who was pressing charges?
GordonUnleashed » Blog Archive » Some Historical Support for the Liberty Dollar wrote on 11/18/07 at 1:36 pm :
[…] has an interesting article on the history of coinage which ties to the current outrage over the federal seizure of Liberty Dollars. From the […]
Zcoins Creator wrote on 11/20/07 at 4:32 am :
Great post. There are plenty of victimless “crimes.” In this case, there has always been a victim: the Federal Reserve. How dare there be competition to their money! So, this is just a case of a victim (the Feds) stopping the hurting that both Liberty Services and their customers were doing to them and also putting a stop to an escalation of that hurt. When you look at it that we it’s plain to see that the Feds were justified in striking back.
At any rate, even if the Feds lose their day in court and have to return everything, they’ve done sufficient damage. Liberty Services was alone (that I know of) in what they were doing. There is nothing already in place to keep the monetary reform heat on the government. They’ve essentially won already, unless some unknown, already-prepared group steps forward to fill in the gap left by ALC.
Anonymous wrote on 11/25/07 at 10:30 am :
Something to think about… the feds say what Liberty Dollar did was fraud cause they(the people running LD) used Federal reserve notes. What were people suppose to pay since the govt already taken away the citizens gold back in 1934 & forced the american people to use the FED’s notes? Here is something ironic… the Govt made us give them our Silver & Gold for the paper notes (which is only backed up by their promises) … Now the US Mint is selling the Silver & Gold back to the people they took it off of!! What is wrong with this picture… I for one am NOT a member of LD but feel they been accused unfairly… I also never voted but will this time & it will be for RON PAUL. He is our only hope!!
Lastly, we now have had either BUSH or a Clinton in office(power) for 5 terms… when will we learn!! Time to wake up before we lose all our rights!! Just my opinion… but it should make any real American mad…
Vinyasi wrote on 11/25/07 at 5:36 pm :
Does the U.S. Govt. Owe YOU Money?
Hearing about the raid on the national fulfillment office of the Liberty Dollar didn’t put me in the fit of pink, but I learned to get over it by donating all of my interest in my unfulfilled orders (that were either curtailed or confiscated by the government on Nov. 14). And to encourage greater participation among bystanders, I’ve further divided my give-away down to as little as one penny provided that these tiny demands for refund be donated to the Liberty Dollar, Legal Defense Fund to help eliminate the logistical nightmare of the Liberty Dollar staff trying to disperse a mere penny to gazillions of people from the proceeds gained whenever the class action lawsuit is completed. But any demand for a refund greater than, or equal to a dollar, could go to the bystander. Since I can contract-out my property to anyone I choose, and further subdivide my give-away down to ridiculously small fractions, my feeble loss (as great as it may seem to me) can be magnified to potentially include lots of participation from anyone who isn’t already involved, but who might now consider the possibility that more than just my rights have been violated, but their’s as well.
For more details about becoming involved, go to:
www.I-Rob-You.info
Vinyasi, Liberty Associate of the San Fernando Valley….